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The Camel Responds Point: Dick Sheppard (April 11, 2002, in submission to saudiembassy.net): What's the story with your government? Maybe it's time your government realizes it's the 21st century and not the 19th, when you were all running around on camels killing each other with swords until the oil was found. Now you want to kill your friends? The people who put you in power and keep you in power? Maybe it's time the American people realize that it might be better to deal with Saddam, who we know is our enemy, than to deal with a duplicitous and scheming Saudi "friends." Your regime is backwards, dissolute and base, you better hope that the American people don't start realizing that the house of Saud or Fahd or whoever, they can be toppled considerably easier than Saddam. The US put you in there, you folks wouldn't last a day. We can pump the oil just fine, thank you.
Regards, Counterpoint: Tarik Allagany, of Saudi Embassy to US (April 12, 2:30pm): I will thank you not to use vulgarities when addressing me. I am a man of respect, and I will be spoken to as such. If you take that tone with me again, I will put a block on your messages.
Best
regards. Counter-Counterpoint: Dick Sheppard (April 12, 2002, 3:35pm): Fair enough on the vulgarity, but the real vulgarity is 15 Saudi nationals flying airplanes into two of the world's most beautiful buildings, and killing 3000 innocent people. A vulgarity is a rich Saudi "Osama" leading a bunch of uncivilized desert nomads of Arab heritage to their deaths in some Afghan hellhole while he makes off with broads, money, and more stupid adherents (well who knows, maybe he's dead). Just one of the problems with Saudi Arabia is your country's duplicity: you live in comfort beyond the imagination of most Americans, and more importantly, you live in comfort beyond the imagination of practically ALL Arabs. And yet your unelected regime seeks to lecture the United States - an imperfect but democratic country - about what our response should be to people, including too many Saudis, who seek like cowards in the night to murder defenseless Americans and Israelis. Your government spreads a propagandistic version of "Islam" among the Arabs' most vulnerable people. Your government in some show of misguided "solidarity" with your "brother Arabs" seeks accommodations with Saddam. Your "government" is a collection of irresolute playboys who are maybe too ignorant to see beyond their pampered lives not just to Western civilization, but more critically to their ignorance of impossibly corrupt and backwards Arab dictators in the entire region. Instead of blaming the US, go after Hosni in Egypt, go after Assad in Syria, go after your pals in Oman, and Yemen. Ask them when the last time they faced an electorate that could maybe have an influence on the way they govern. Not a chance, right? Easier to take a few shots at a distant country who can tolerate such piddle, before getting truly angry and lashing out. Why doesn't Saudi Arabia make noise about all of the Palestinians being held in tawdry conditions within their "brother Arab" nations in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, etc? Nobody wants to know the truth that Palestinians living in Israel, who live better than Palestinians living in any "brother Arab" nation? Why not? It's okay, you don't have to listen to this lone voice, but you should know that while this voice is angry, it is not extreme. Osama may have done America a favor in the sense that Japan did America a favor in 1941: War has its uses, and one of its uses is to distill reality and relationships, too unmask the clever and too often harmful obsequiousness which grows up around difficult relationships. You are generous for responding, and for inviting comment. It is not easy to snap at such a proffered hand inviting debate. But your country might recognize that these sentiments questioning some of your country's puzzling actions regarding the US defending our citizens are not extreme, and there is a growing sense in America that if some of these regimes can't handle the incredible bounty they've been given, maybe they shouldn't have it in the first place. Again, thanks for responding, it isn't easy to take shots at Saudi Arabia, which has on the whole been a friend of the US. Not to brag, or to be nationalistic, but America is angry now, and edgy. There are few nations in the history of the world that would have responded with the restraint the US has shown. We both know that had any Arab government had the same ability to respond that the US has, there would have been nuclear weapons flying all over. But it is comforting for this citizen to know, even if Saddam achieves his dream and visits an unconventional attack on the US, that in the end, the US will exist, and he will not. It may sound extreme, but more and more Americans are realizing the threats, and unlike the vaunted but hollow "Arab street" who shakes their fists and chants, Americans will debate, and Americans will improvise, and in the end America will prevail. Why, sir, would Saudi Arabia want to be on the opposite side of that? It's not that we're angry with the Saudis because we don't "understand" any "Arab grievance." We are mad at your country because we say to ourselves, "why would they bet against the US?" Well, your government's choice. Too bad the Saudi people, whether they admire or detest the US, it really doesn't matter from their perspective. Regards, Counter- Counter-Counterpoint:Tarik Allagany, of Saudi Embassy to US (April 12, 5:36pm): Wow Richard that is a lot of name calling. But since you have tried to put your comments in a civil tone, I will respond. While there were Saudi Arabians among the 9/11 hijackers, they do not represent mainstream Saudi Arabia any more than men like David Koresh, Jim JOnes, the Unabomber or Timothy Mcviegh represent mainstream America. These are men with twisted ideologies who have done terrible things, and we strongly condemn their actions. You make it sound like these terrorists were sent to the US as agents of the Saudi Arabian government. That is preposterous. If that was the case, the US government would have immediately closed its embassy in Riyadh. If Saudi Arabia supported this terrorism, why would Osama Bin Laden and his group felt the need to go to Afghanistan. Osama Bin Laden hates Saudi Arabia even more than he hates the US. He would love nothing more than to see the overthrow of our government. We would never support him or anyone of his ilk. You criticize Saudi Arabia's system of government, but our system works fine for us. I think it is ethnocentric to assume the whole world should have the same system of government the US has. There are many types of government in this world. By and large, they all work. If our citizens are happy with the system we use, who is anybody to criticize it. We are not trying to impose our system on you, yet you insist on imposing your system on us. Some people assume that because Saudi Arabia has a monarchy, citizens do not have a voice in government. That simply is not true. Citizens play a very active role in government. We have a Council of Ministers, a Consultative Council, and the King has an open court any citizens can attend on a weekly basis. Our citizens are well treated, and are happy with our King. And just because a country has a monarch does not mean it is a dictatorship. I don't hear anyone calling England, Spain or Sweden dictatorships. It's just a matter of 'different stroke for different folks'. Saudi Arabia most certainly does not seek an y accommodation with Saddam. Where in the world did you hear that? We do not think this is a good time to launch a military attack on Iraq, for several reasons, but we are no friends of Saddam. We live in a very volatile part of the world. There is a lot of violence going on in the Middle East right now. We would like to decrease, or eliminate, the violence. An attack on Iraq would send things in an upward spiral. There are other countries which could join the fray, and we could find ourselves at the beginning of World War III. Also, why is the US considering an attack on Iraq? It is because Iraq is in violation of United Nations resolutions. Well there are only two countries in the world which are in violation of UN resolutions - Iraq which is in violation of 50 resolutions, and Israel which is in violation of 70 resolutions. We do not see the US planning any attack on Israel to make them comply with UN resolutions. To the contrary, the US spend billions upon billions of dollars every year to fortify the Military of Israel - a country in violation of more UN resolutions than any country in the world. A country in violation of all the Geneva Conventions. A country which has maintained an illegal military occupation of Palestinian territories for the past 35 years. A country which continues to massacre innocent and unarmed Palestinians in refugee camps as we speak. There are some huge double standards here. You called our leaders 'irresolute playboys'. Are you saying there is more illicit sex going on in Riyadh than in Washington? Believe me, no one can keep up with the playboys and womanizers of DC. I see it happen all the time here. Rep. Barney Franks was caught running a prostitution ring out of his house. Even President Clinton was found to be getting hummers from and intern in the Oval Office. And I remember the fine mayor here - a fellow named Marion Barry. Believe me, this is scandal city. In the final analyses, Saudi Arabians do like the US very much. There are a lot of connections between our countries. Commercially - we do over $20 billion a year in trade wit the US. Politically - We both are stabilizing forces in a volatile part of the world. Educationally - most college educated Saudis have gone to American schools. Even culturally and socially - On thing most people are not aware of is that Saudi Arabia is home to the larges American community outside the US. we have over 100,000 Americans living in Saudi Arabia.
Its closing time here, and I've go to run home. If you would like to exchange thoughts some more, please feel free to call me at the embassy any time during working hours. My direct line number is (xxx) xxx-xxxx. Peace
out.
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